12th June 2003
Combining your two posts..
Are you saying ..what is , is and all that exists is the moment?
There is no horizontal time.
If you are moved to, .................have a look at a prattling "And therein lies the eternal delight" in the Covenant,
Actually, my questing is somewhat more complex....I do lack the skill needed to convey my question in a manor that others understand and it may be best if I remain silent, however..
Silence is not absence of thought.
Silence is the absence of the self, taking the delivery of thought, taking ownership of thought.
It is my view, that perhaps,in finding and answer to the question of existance and truth , is indeed where science, physics, philosophy and religion stand on the same rock .
Just using different tools.
Spirituality (to use a hackneyed term) is when the basic error is apperceived and all tools are then meaningless.
I also feel that the method nesassary to make these determinations was learned and practiced some 5500 yrs ago and is practiced by eastern philosophy.
Yeah, the waters in that region taste funny too .<LOL>
Useing the Sun for example,when it is observed....,,What is the process when making any determinations about its "existance"?
There is a combination of conditions that causes our sences to send data to the brain, the brain then creates a picture and then gives this immage a name. The "sun ".
As is the case for any object, or experience which is cognized as so.
Then another condition is attached...the moment ...."now".
However what is being observed ....at that moment....was ,actially not there but it took a passasge of moments,this passage maybe measured by minutes, and some 13 minutes had passed since the object was in the position from where observation was made.Upon closer examination, every thing...all things....and body forms are such...impermanent and conditioned. Dependant upon its parts and conditions.
That is why no object of cognition, has any independent existence.
It's existence is always relational.
Now I am suggesting that the "cognizing subject" is also a "cognized object"
And thus has no independent existence of it's own.
Not to be used as an oppisit to ultimate truth...but rather as evidence of it.
The relativity of where this phenomena is placed as a moment on or in a prespective of space/ time is the closet example of "the present moment" and how it is all that actually exists..
The present moment, the now, while much bandied upon, is once again a concept used to make a point.
In the very observing of the present moment, ........the present moment has passed.
In the very attempt to observe, cognize, "it",.........is the missing of it.
All your cognition, all your observation is of the moment past,..... and hence only as mnemonic impressions, which are stored once again as "fashioned" impressions, fashioned by the prevailing conditioning-in-the-moment.
Recall anything from your memory.
All you will recall is your impressions, your "take" of the past moment, never the moment as it was.
It is just not possible otherwise.
The architecture is such, that recall is always of "takes" of the past.
Till an apperception happens, when the entire hoopla is seen though.
Not seen though, for that connotes an entity to see, ............but..............realling a seeing-through, without a seer of the seeing.
Apperceiving is the perceiving without a perceiver thereof.
Eastern philosophy does take other dimensions into account when making observations.
Whether this dimension or other dimensions, makes no difference.
Any benifit from discusing this may indeed be in viewing how this is rooted in how organisms suffer from....ignorence of impermanence and attachment to these "objects of observation".....descusion about truth do have a history of becomming arguementitive but I feel that this is also subject to change.
Now we really come to the crux.
Someone else, on some other thread, asks the question, all this prattling from Zorba to what end.
Well, no end is being served, as no start has been initiated.
However the entire focus on what is the dearly held assumption of your identity, the self, the me-entity, ............is because that is where the root of all suffering arises.
Not pain mind you, but suffering.
Iif your life is one breeze, untainted with any suffering whatsoever, ..........forget all this stuff.
Why are you even on a Cyber List searching for a meaning of Life.<LOL>
However, if there is a thirst, if there is an yearning, if there is that deepest despair, that anxiety, that fear, ...............that suffering, which you are calling as your living,...........
...........then let's explore, let's walk and................ maybe voila....... a snap of the finger, .......the whole is seen to be the very seeing itself.
And for that, there is nothing "out there", .............no method, ...........no meditation technique, no Tantric yogic poses, no prayer, no "hand-outs" from an icon of authority.
The energy whose objective expression, the manifest body-mind complex, which you have believed to be your identity, ...............that energy which chases externally, ..........
.....THROUGH you, ....
..............has to turn and fall on itself.