21st May 2003

Hiya rapsson,

Extracting some interesting observations that you made.

Some two cents in between.....

Aside from the purely man made stuff....if the BIble really is a God inspired, Holy Spirit bred piece of work, then why do we choose to examine it from a purely humanistic - linguistic or scientific point of view?

Because when you are "driven" to examine, investigate, that is the only methodology available.

Now a guy like Meister Eckhart or John of the Cross, would not give a rat's ass, for a piece of writing, or a book or a scripture, whether it was Divinely inspired, written by divine fingers or by a drunken sod.

The vessel is so full with bliss (to use a conceptual term), that no thought of examining even what has filled up the cup, ......arises.

However, some other vessel, may be moved to examine, investigate, wonder, ponder.

In the very thought to examine, whether through your heart or through your mind, methodology is born.

We choose to disregard the possibility that the spirit of God is "in" there somewhere.

Yes.

Here's a gestalt for your consideration......

There is nothing which occurs which is not as per God's will.

Both the original prattling (call the prattling, the Bible, the Koran, the Gita or the Dharmapada, it makes no difference)..................... and the corruption over the centuries of the original prattling,.........all as per the wish of divinity.

Again, when I use the tern wish of divinity, I do not mean as a Creator-created duality.

There is only God.......

As the sinner

As the saint

As the "sin"

As the "sinning"

As the ceasing of "sinning"

As the lover

As the Beloved

As the "pursued",............. playing all the pursuing-roles of all the "pursuers"

Simultaneously

And thus there is nothing like spiritual as distinct from material.

Yes there is an appearance of the separation.

Just like "waves" in the Ocean, appear to be distinct, separate, from the Ocean.

Yet pick up a "wave" in your hand and all you will have in the cup of your palm, is the Ocean.

We try to have an explanation for everything and try our hardest to humanise GOd in such a way that we claim to know how he will do everything. Often I have read 'God wouldn't do that'...how do we know God wouldn't? Do we really think that we know everything about the character of Our Divine?

Whatever happens, whatsoever happens, can only be the objective expression of the functioning of divinity.

Nothing can happen, which is not an expression of divinity.

Nothing.

This entire phenomenality, is the dancing-expression of a Dancer.

A dance is getting enacted, because a Dancer is dancing.

A dancer is a Dancer, because a dance is getting created.

Where does the dance end and the dancer start.

Where does the dancer end and the dance start.

Where is the separation between the two.

Invite, if you are intrigued, to have a look at the Covenant,

"In seeing the images, I sees I-self"

The very need to express the Universal I AM, is the very apparent creation of finity, ......in which all expressions aka, " Universal I AM", comes into existence.

The eye can see everything, but not itself.

Except as an image in a mirror.

Phenomenality is the mirror and the dancing images within the mirror, images of that-which-IS.

In seeing the images, .................I sees I-self.

This leads us on to other questions.

How do we know, outside the contents of a holy script, that our personal view of the divine is correct?

A personal view, no matter how profound or how profane, .........is a view.

That's all.

Because we say it is? Because it's what "feels right to me"?

What feels right is just what is consistent with the "conditioning-in-the-moment", ........ which is "running" you in the moment.

That's all.

Feelings are a poor criteria.

What criteria do we use to measure and judge what we think is right, against what others think is right? Or is it that anything goes, everyone is right and no one is possibly wrong?

Interesting questions.

Suggest, just to be with this,..................

.....In phenomenality (in which the human body-mind complex, is an infinitely small nuance), ...........there is nothing which is "right" and nothing which is "wrong".

In a phenomenal sense, there is only functioning, movements.

And phenomenality, itself is a conceptual construct.

Ergo, nothing is really happening, ..........let alone "right" or "wrong".

What then is our criteria for measuring Truth? And is there such a thing as 'truth'?

When you believe there is a criteria, any criteria, you have created the duality of the criteria and that which is to be subject to that criteria.

The judge, the premise for judging and the "judged".

When Truth is the judge, the judging, and the judged, .....

........simultaneously, ...

... can Truth be objectified, such that a criteria, any criteria, can be applicable?

And thus you have asked a right question......is there such a thing as 'truth'?

Within your last night-sleep-dream-sequence, a dreamed-up character wonders, is there such a thing like the dreamer?

What is the import of the wondering of that dreamed-up character, when today morning, you are awake and sip from a hot cup of sipping tea.

Invite, the examination of the existential reality of the entity labeled "rapsson" (or whatever is your non-cyber name), rather than whatever beliefs, understandings, realizations, that entity is supposed to have.

One says 'God wouldn't be so sadistic as to kill women and children' - yet what we are actually saying is 'killing women and children for whatever reason is awful, I DON't LIKE IT, therefore a loving God wouldn't do it.' IN such a line of reasoning we are assuming we know everything there is to know about the character of a God - when really, if God is super natural, all knowing and all powerful, then we really know very little about 'It'.

A painted object, whatever it knows about the painter, can only be conceptual conjectures, isn't it?

Coming to violence (interesting that killing woman/children was awful, men appeared dispensable )....... the issue really is violence, isn't it?

Or destruction.

In a phenomenal sense, destruction is a perfect nuance of Life.

Right now, medical science, validates, that close to a million cells are destroyed, EVERY second, and a similar number "born", in the body-mind complex, labeled "rapsson".

Every second.

Very violent stuff, going on at your cellular level.

At the consciousness of that single cell, having a life-span of half a second, ......it is genocide.

It's so unfair.

The "cell" had so many plans, .........to investigate God, .........to feel the Bible, ........to arrive at objective criteria's for judging what is true, what is not, ..............spread the good word of Jesus, or Buddha or Allah, or Chuan Moon Sung, or whatever.

But half-second and pooof, gone...............it's all a bloody end.

It's the destructioning-creationing, ............moment to moment to moment at the cellular level, in perfect balance, .................which maintains the harmony of "rapssons" at the macro level.

No spiritual mumbo-jumbo but Medical Science which now states, that dis-ease, is the temporary breakdown of that balance, with "death" being the permanent breakdown.

My reading of the article leads me to believe that the author was truly led to a place in his life where he really wanted some answers. In essence however, he has thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

Yes.

When, all that you think you know, feel, understand,........... when all are thrown out, the baby, the bathwater, the bathing tub itself......

.........there is that vacant space, ..............there is that yearning which just cannot be brought into words or feelings,.....

.....where the whispering Divinity may be apperceived.

Not through any book, no matter what it's title.

And that's ok. There is nothing worse than coming across someone who claims to be one way, but lives a very double standard. I commend him for his change, I personally have not reached such a place, and for the moment, I doubt I will. That's not because I'm blind, a sheep, weak or uneducated. It's because I have my own set of objective criteria for my faith - the only subjective reason for staying where I am, is the way it makes me 'feel'.

And you call that an objective criteria, rapsson?

All feelings are thoughts with maybe an associated sensation in the body-mind complex.

And arising thoughts are "fashioned" by the intrinsic conditioning-in-the-moment.

Other than that, there is enough archeological, historical, circumstantial and "reasonable" data that keeps me believing.

Why?

What does the belief do for you?

What is the real stake in that belief?

If the belief collapsed, ............is there a fear that the entity "rapsson", would cease to exist?

It just depends where you go to look for your evidence to support the claim.

If we can credit humans with the sole creation of the Bible, then we are looking at the most incredible invention of all time.

Sure, the Bible, the Koran, the Gita, the Dharmapadda, have been written by human hands.

Including the "versions" of the original prattlings, .........that float around today

But the hands were kept moving by the same Source.

Some few cents, .........if they don't sit well with you,....... hit the del key.

Zip-A-Dee-Dah-Doo-Phaaaat

Thank you for your detailed response.

You are welcome.

Just to quickly clarify though....I do think the criteria I set for my faith (ie..is it verifiable, existentially liveable etc) is objective. I made the point that the only subjective part is how it makes me 'feel'. I appreciate that this ought not to be part of a criteria for the sake of analysis for others, but for me personally it is.

Fine.

If I were to present Christianity to a board, I would leave out how it makes me 'feel' altogether, because it is basically irrelevant. On the other hand, I do believe there is quite a place for our 'gut feel' or 'sixth sense'.

Oh sure.

Apperception however, is beyond,...... both the mind and the heart.

You are correct in the point you make when using the waves and the ocean. We are distinctly a part of that which has been created by the Creator.

Invite you to consider.....

We, as sentient conditioned responsive objects, are an objective expression of that pure subjectivity, with no independent existential reality.

And thus not a part of ........."created that", .............for that would lend a distinct existence.

The "wave" in the Ocean, is not part of the Ocean.

Having no independent existential reality of it's own, the "wave" is an objective expression of the Ocean.

And there is a simple investigation to verify this.

We cannot be entirely separated. All things in unison, existing by the will of the Divine, distinct in nature but somewhat separate in will....

No.

No separation.

Not even an iota.

For separation entails, ....there being two.

The character of God is indeed truly revealed in those who choose to dance the Dance of the first Dancer.

Do you have a choice?

Have you exercised choice out of your independent volition, for anything in your life?

Give one example, preferably the one which has deeply impacted your life and if you are agreeable, let's "walk" with that and unravel to see what independent volition, was exercised by "rapsson".

Whether, aware or not aware, whether asleep or whether awake, ..........you as you are, right now in this moment, ............you are an expression, a nuance of the Dance of Totality.

A statement equally valid for any object, sentient or non-sentient, .........in phenomenality, ..............of which this Universe is just a mere infinitely small bubble.

The truth is that "rapsson", does not live.

"Rapssson" is .........."lived".

Exactly as living is happening in the moment, THROUGH her as an instrument of Divinity.

Moment to moment to moment.

It's when the choreography of the dancer to the Dance working outside the Dancer's first design takes place, that we see the uniqueness of the dancer's dance.

Sure.

Each "wave" in the Ocean is unique.

Each snowflake is unique.

The beauty of such a performance is that the Dancer is not beyond the scope of the dancer's own rhythm and tune.

There is only one rhythm and only one tune.

Imagine yourself standing in a huge hall where there are thousands of mirrors.

Each mirror has a different curvature, is placed at a different angle, is made up of slightly different chemical compositions, such that each of your images are different in each of the mirrors.

And imagine you had the power to and you did bestow the quality of sentience to each of the images, whereby each "image" assumed it was the subject, cognizing, noting all the other images.

That except itself, all other images were objects, of which it, was the subject.

Each image "thinks" this and believes it is observing all the other characters, out of it's free will, out of it's choice.

And you start dancing.

The magnificence of the Dancer and It's Dance is how the dancer can be brought back in to have unison, again, the singleness of step and oneness of rhythm.

Out of unison, appears to be.

Never is.

When I am all, .....................what is not-I which can be not in unison with I.

The phenomenal thing I find with right and wrong, truth and lies, is that regardless of the tune to which we dance to - there can always be a step which is out of place, but always a way to incorporate that step into the Dance not so that it never happened, but that it is absorbed to make each dance unique to the dancer.

Invite you to consider that the very step which you judged as "out of place", could not have happened, in any other way, whatsoever, ..........than in the way it happened.

Nothing is "out of the place" in phenomenality.

How can it be, when nothing is not Thy's expression?

The belief remains alive inasmuch as I choose for it to remain so.

Sure.

That's how "rapsson" is being........ "lived".

In the moment.

Next moment who knows what the allotted role will unfold.

Outside my own conscious choice however, remains the objective nature of the Path.

The invitation again.

Give one example an occurring event out of your independent conscious choice.

The written history; the actuality of the lives of those who lived in the days of it's birth; the places - the stage - where it all took place; and we - the audience.

IT's physical demise will come.

:-)

Has it occurred in the first place, for it to demise?

Or is phenomenality, .............a dream of Bozo the Clown?

Be this actual prophecy or self fulfilling matters little. The nature of mankind will see it challenged; and the death toll rung again for the Bible and those who put their faith in it's claims. The funeral procession will march again, as it has done hundreds upon hundreds of times before. The spark will be all but snuffed as the mourners retreat to wallow in it's death rather than rejoice in the life it brought.

But, as with the death of all things, the breath of life will linger - the fragrance of hope will hang like it has done countless times before.

Why is death to be mourned?

Without death, can Life be?

And death of what?

The lap, when you get up .......or the fist when you open your fingers?

The body-mind complex, the psycho-somatic apparatus, the biological computer, is an out growth of a sperm and a ovun doing the hip-hop at some time.

The essence of a sperm and an ovum is the food ingested.

The essence of food (of any kind) are the 5 fundamental elements of nature.

At the "death" of the psycho-somatic apparatus, either through cremation, or burial or being fed to the vultures (if you were of the Zorastrian faith), .........the body-mind complex, reverts back to the fundamental elements, from which it emerged.

Dust to dust.

Nothing created, nothing destroyed.

Just changing energy patterns in a phenomenal sense.

So whose death is to be mourned?

Whose Life is to be rejoiced?

In this light I can say the entity who is "rapsson" will not cease to exist, but will dance on the inside the the Tune the Dancer set in her heart, long before she came to be.

A nuance of a tune.........

...a tune which never started and thus never ends.

The pealing Bell.

Out of nothing, emerged a sound.

Vibrated, resonated for a duration.......

......and submerged back into that same nothingness.

Doooo beeee Dobeeee Dooooo